12 sec E30?

[Over Boost]

What would be the best way to get a E30 running 11s in the 1/4 mile? I was thinking of turboing a 325i because its a iron block so it should be strong. I figure I would need like at least 300whp. Then with things like suspension, tires and lsd I think I would hit high 11s. And also I would do some weight reduction to to help me reach my mark. So what do you guys think? How would you do it? Maybe engine swap, M3 ect...?

[bmwman91]

There is a guy here, BimmerJim, that has a turbo 325 and it is running 11's I THINK. Might have been 12's. Its a pretty sweet setup so look to him for information.

[vodomagoo]

ditch the m20 and get an engine that flows betting like a m50 variant and turbo that, also some major rear end reworking so you can fit slicks and not brake your axles ect.. i was working down into the 12's in my car and snaped an axel on my launch with some bfg drag radials on and i only have a na s50 in it so with some decent power things go wrong realy realy quick. also gearing will help alot, although some have had good sucess with the m20 the limits of the engine are alot lower then a m50 style engine with double the valves have not been reached by many yet.

[323I Junkie]

SOme people would say , "Buy a Mustang," but I appreciate what you are doing or trying to do,

Every freakin turbo kit Ive seen out their for an M20 or M30 sucks.

Buy a tig, a box of bends, a book on turbos, and go to work

You want a nice, engineered header and intercooler system

The thing about current BMW turbo kits, is they get you a little more than any other mod, so people rave about them. with its very good headflow, an m20 should destriy the 302's record of 240% power gain on a stock motor

this would be: 2.4*170=408 Flywheel, at least 350 wheel

[NoName]

Yeah, bimmerjim ran a 12.1 with slicks.
He has like 270hp or somthing like that..
The guy launches at like 5k and hasn't broken anything btw.

Bimmerjim.com

[bigbore]

ditch the m20 and get an engine that flows betting like a m50 variant and turbo that, also some major rear end reworking so you can fit slicks and not brake your axles ect.. i was working down into the 12's in my car and snaped an axel on my launch with some bfg drag radials on and i only have a na s50 in it so with some decent power things go wrong realy realy quick. also gearing will help alot, although some have had good sucess with the m20 the limits of the engine are alot lower then a m50 style engine with double the valves have not been reached by many yet.

I've heard the m20 is stronger.. 12v m20 has less things to break.. But check out e30tech.com there's a couple guys pushing 300hp with stock internals and drivetrain.

[vodomagoo]

hes lucky, i have around 250 to the ground and distroyed a half shaft at the cv joint and twisted the inner cup that goes into the diff with only drag radials

[Bimmubishi]

We're starting a build on an E30 slated to have about 450whp this week coming. I'll keep you guys posted. It may be the fastest in the country when it's done but we have no intentions of drag racing it.


Alex
Dent Sport Garage

[Yonkers320is]

go to http://www.proturbo.fi/ and check the manifolds for a turbo (around 600 bucks) and with a T3/T4 or Holset plus a chip and bigger injectors you can get 300hp from the M20. The stock bottom end and block can take some serious power. I seen some in finland and sweden pushing more than 350hp, plenty for an E30

[Over Boost]

Well my friend just got a 1990 325i with a rebuilt motor with like only 600 miles on it. He is going for the same goal as me so we are thinking of taking different paths and see who ends up the fastest. He wants big to go big... like twin turbo big. I dont know what im going do. Well I guess get a E30 first But after that im either going to keep the M20 and go single turbo or swap it for something...


Whats a M50? Is that the E36 325i engine?

[EThirD]

Yes, the 2.5 Liter M50 was in the 325i, and the 3.0 liter M50 was in the '95 US M3.

[C ///M]

with its very good headflow, an m20 should destriy the 302's record of 240% power gain on a stock motor

Just to let you know, the M20 is known for natoriously horrible head flow. As a matter of fact, it's the motor's well known weakest point.

[draculia]

We're starting a build on an E30 slated to have about 450whp this week coming. I'll keep you guys posted. It may be the fastest in the country when it's done but we have no intentions of drag racing it.

sounds fun, i may have to go up and check it out some time. i have intentions of the 400-500whp in the future. i was originally gonna screw with a pair of gt28r turbos, but the exhaust for the front turbo would have been an issue i didn't want to bother with at this point. so i'm looking at a gt3071 on a stock manifold adapter until i feel like fabbing a tubular t4 manifold.

the two things i was worried about were the toothpick-like axles and the headgasket. i'm still looking for an mls head gasket for the m20.

[GreekDriver]

Turbo the M20 or get an S38 and turbo it(stupid idea). S50 swaps aren't unique anymore. It would be like driving a Civic...

[323I Junkie]

Just to let you know, the M20 is known for natoriously horrible head flow. As a matter of fact, it's the motor's well known weakest point.

Youve obviously never flowed a 302 head. Their efficiency is below 50%They suck so bad, for years, people were putting on 351W heads and even 351C/400C heads with custom pistons. With the advent of CNC, and Trick FLow, all of a sudden, GT owners had a reason to live


If yopu take the mass flow equations and work them backwayrds, there is no way the 2.5, 170 hoirse engine is THAT bad. for instnace, if you take the old 100h/ci theory for single cam engines, the 2.5 should be making 153 horses


So its already WAY up there onthe single cam efificnecy chart. Te 100 h/liter thing came about with CC cam phasing, manifold phasing, and 4/5 valves/cyl configurations

[hotghias]

The thing about current BMW turbo kits, is they get you a little more than any other mod, so people rave about them. with its very good headflow, an m20 should destriy the 302's record of 240% power gain on a stock motor

240% power gain with turbo? you would have to put in AT LEAST 35.3 PSI of boost. not likely. or at least not likely for long.

[323I Junkie]

Ah, so it would seem, but the power gain from a tubo is not linear with its increasein atmospheric pressure, that not hte way the airflow through the engine behaves. At pressure, flow ratios and rates through the induciton and exhaust system become different. I used to beleive that duoble atmosphere equal double horsepower, sometimes it does, sometimes it doesnt. It all depends on A: how efficient the engine is to begin with,
B: where the innefficieny lies
C:How the turbo system is created.


The first time I saw a mustang LX go from 190 RWHP to 475, I was blown away

[C ///M]

Youve obviously never flowed a 302 head. Their efficiency is below 50%They suck so bad, for years, people were putting on 351W heads and even 351C/400C heads with custom pistons. With the advent of CNC, and Trick FLow, all of a sudden, GT owners had a reason to live


If yopu take the mass flow equations and work them backwayrds, there is no way the 2.5, 170 hoirse engine is THAT bad. for instnace, if you take the old 100h/ci theory for single cam engines, the 2.5 should be making 153 horses


So its already WAY up there onthe single cam efificnecy chart. Te 100 h/liter thing came about with CC cam phasing, manifold phasing, and 4/5 valves/cyl configurations

So you know, I did a comparison with BMW engines. The m20 head, compared to other bmw engines, has terrible head flow, and is known in the e30 world as one of the M20s greatest limiting factors.

I have never flowed a 302 head and know nothing about the other engines you posted, but then again, this is a bmw forum, and I know where the m20 stands in the bmw world.

[323I Junkie]

It wasnt an attack


And the head is always the limiting factor in any engine, unless its a B18 honda or something

[Over Boost]

So im confused, is the M20 a good BMW platform to turbo or no? Could you put better heads on the M20? Would the M50 be a better choice? If so then I would just find a E36 cause there only a little more expensive around here. Also what does the 3.0 liter E36 engine go for price wise? Would it be a good turbo platform?

[M-technik-3]

http://www.turbochargingdynamics.com/

They are in Suffield CT. The E30 makes 296 hp TQ I forgot figure.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/phpBB2/vie...123&highlight=

"Sorry, I don't have the graph yet. It was 82F during the run. Car was running 14.5psi Intercooled and made 290rwhp @ 5800rpm and 300rwtq @ 4200rpm. Car is running beautifully. A little more tinkering and we should be able to get to 16/17psi and about 315rwhp.

All numbers are SAE corrected."

http://www.turbochargingdynamics.com/tcd_news_001.htm

[Over Boost]

So those kits are good for about 300hp? Are there kits a good deal or would I better off buying some stuff from them like manifold and assembly stuff and then getting the turbo, intercooler...ect else where?

[M-technik-3]

Sold only as a kit. Reason why is there devolopment time into the system. 300hp is a reliable numbers.

[vodomagoo]

Turbo the M20 or get an S38 and turbo it(stupid idea). S50 swaps aren't unique anymore. It would be like driving a Civic...

it might not be unique when ur on message boards and alot of the people that have done the swap are on the boards nowadays but in actualilty there are not many of them running around in the big picture, even though the s38 would be crazy size and weight of it kill the car

[hotghias]

Ah, so it would seem, but the power gain from a tubo is not linear with its increasein atmospheric pressure, that not hte way the airflow through the engine behaves. At pressure, flow ratios and rates through the induciton and exhaust system become different. I used to beleive that duoble atmosphere equal double horsepower, sometimes it does, sometimes it doesnt. It all depends on A: how efficient the engine is to begin with,
B: where the innefficieny lies
C:How the turbo system is created.


The first time I saw a mustang LX go from 190 RWHP to 475, I was blown away

i don't want to get in a pissing match, but i don't believe it. a mustang v8 making 190 hp is probably detuned and underrated to begin with. there must be other variables and changes coming into play. adding a turbo also adds an exhaust restriction, and preheats the air coming into the engine. doubling hp with doubled pressure is an ideal. those restrictions pretty much prevent that from happening unless you do other things like improve the exhaust after the turbo, make the pre-turbo intake as good as possible, improve fuel/timing, whatever.

read Maximum Boost by Corky Bell. and look at turbo setups from the various m20 turbo people. nobody's making 450 hp with 15 psi on an otherwise stock m20.